It makes me despair, it really does. The sight of Gareth Bale, and then heart-breakingly, our young captain, Aaron Ramsey proudly wearing the blue mock Team GB shirt in a cynically produced propaganda series has deadened my morale, and blunted the sharp sense of optimism that I felt for our proud young side. Of course, this blue shirt isn’t the genuine article; TeamGB© will be wearing white for their manager, Stuart Pearce.
I’ve previously stated my objections to this modern exploitation of our national sport in order to market an expensive Olympic games for London. I won’t go over old ground, but this first shot in the campaign to win over the rebellious Celts is aggressive, insulting, provocative, and brilliantly well-judged. I don’t blame the Olympic marketeers, and the Adidas commercial team. They’re just doing their jobs very well. The objections of the Celtic Football Associations have been a little embarrassing for the politicians who are desperately trying to sell an expensive London Olympics to a sceptical British public.
In recent days, we’ve heard Neil Warnock bemoaning Bale’s Welshness, and Ruud Gullit opining that Aaron Ramsey could one day play for England. Those two players are holding a pretty high profile at the moment and TeamGB© offers the English a taste of what could be if it wasn’t for those irritating Taffies who produce the occasional genius. As Harry Redknapp said – “it should be every players dream to represent their country at the Olympics in England”.
I view this poster campaign as the Olympic officials parading their spoils. In defiance of the FAW, they are putting Bale and Ramsey on display like a trophy of war. “There’s nothing you can do” they are saying. “We wanted your players, and we’ve got them”. They are parading along the promenade with your wife on their arm, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
We should not pretend that the general Welsh public is up in arms. Most people in Wales are unaware of the awkward and potentially threatening political structure of international football. The most unexpected of people, some hard-core fans, see this as a bit of a jolly, much like the jaunts of the British Lions Rugby Team. I was a guest in a Radio Wales phone-in recently where the leading question was “Are the people who oppose Team GB merely petty nationalists?” Of course, I took a hammering. There was no sense of irony. Apparently British nationalism is acceptable, even desirable when the Olympic games comes along, and it is never in any way petty.
The marketing teams and the politicians have played a blinder. They know our hands are tied. They have turned our golden boys and are swaggering towards Wembley in 2012 with their arms round their shoulders. We look on helplessly, and they know that we won’t criticise our star players because we need them. There is a fans protest arranged for the friendly game against Norway, but I doubt it will be large scale, and it won’t even command majority support amongst the home fans. We’re Welsh, we’ll just doff our cap and thank you for your crumbs. We won’t even strip Ramsey of the captaincy despite his public humiliation of the FAW. We’ll just take our boys back gladly when you’re done with them.
So, so sad and so, so true Phil
Bale does proudly wear the Wales shirt, but as the Olympics are in town, and in the Olympics we’re all under the British flag, then he has every right to play in a British team.
Fair enough if you’ve got a chip on your shoulder over it, but Gareth hasn’t hence why he’s proud to represent Britain
The Olympics are ‘in town’? They’re not in my town. I accept that many people agree with you and Gareth. Let’s hope you’re right.
Great article
Hugh, you’re being disingenuous and I’m sure you know it. You’re surely aware that Welsh players’ participation in a Team GB poses an actual and genuine threat to the very existence of the Welsh national football team. This isn’t petty paranoia or conspiracy-mongering. It is well-known that most of FIFA hates the fact that we have a proper team that gets to play competitive games because we aren’t a nation state. This is especially the case since due to a strange historical quirk the FAW is actually one of the most powerful football associations in the world. That actually is a justified grievance, but it’s not the point; probably a majority of the associations within FIFA want us gone completely. In their eyes we should be just like the Basque or Catalan national sides: not the real thing, but we could get the token friendly every now and then against other stateless nations.
The FAW are strongly against a Team GB for this reason. Bale and Allen expressing a desire to play for this sham of a team is bad enough, but as captain of his country, Ramsey is being particularly foolish. He is actually and willingly threatening the very existence of his country within the world football stage (willingly because I can’t imagine that nobody’s told him of these concerns). That surely disqualifies him from his role.
This is all extremely frustrating.
Typical comment from the Saes/Unionists. The moment you say something that is pro-Welsh you are immediately accused of having a chip on your shoulder.
Let’s not pretend it’s only the non inglish fans who are against Team GB. There are plenty of inglish fans who are worried about a forced merger and want nothing to do with what is essentially a cash grab.
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I find it hard to believe that Bale and Ramsey are putting their own selfish, misguided ambitions before the future of our national team. Lost all respect for the pair of them.
Hi, just a few thoughts – really not trying to be a wind up or anything, but I really don’t see what the big deal is with a team GB in the olympics? It’s a one off! It only happens every four years and it’s a chance at putting your name in the history books for ever… thats what it must come down to at the end of the day. We all know it’s been over 50 years since a welshman had the chance to do anything in a major football tournament… George Best (I know he’s not welsh) and Ryan Giggs are in many peoples eyes some of the best (if not THE best) players never to have graced the pitch in a major International tournament… Would they have ripped your arm off for a shot at doing just that in the olympics? who knows… I would think so… should they be given the opportunity without being made to feel like traitors? for me…yes.
Team GB is just how we do things IN THE OLYMPICS… Colin Jackson is a proud owner of a couple of world records (last i knew anyway) and he’s also a proud welshman and yet, owner of a BRITISH passport!
I think it’s very cynical to think the only motives for a team GB in the olympics are underhand… think of it another way, there are a good number of nations putting forward olympic football teams… why on earth wouldn’t the hosts put a team out too? Yes it is about glamourising the olympics…but what on earth is wrong with that? why bid for the olympics if you don’t want to have a good old crack at it, and make it the greatest spectacle you possibly can?!
And the harry redknapp quote? well… the players eligible would still be representing their respective countries, as they all come under the banner of great britain, and the olympics are going to be in england! whats the big deal?
Yep – as I said in the blog, there are many people who feel the same way as you. It’s a valid point of view.
Um, how can it be a one off that happens every four years?
Seriously, there are other tournaments which offer players the opportunity to “put their names in the history books for ever” – most of them far more important (the North Wales Coast Junior Cup, for example). I don’t see why we should acquiesce to a scheme which could see us losing our national team, just for the sake of fattening Sebastian Coe’s bank balance.
1 – Not trying to wind you up or anything, but if you really don’t see what the big deal is with having Team GB in the Olympics you must be just as myopic and / or selective in the information you take in as our two golden boys.
2 – can people PLEASE stop calling the olympics a “major” international tournament
Have any other nations had player shots released yet?
The two pro Brit muppets here just don’t get it do they. It’s not so much about dear old Blighty and rolling out the barrel for a one off meaningless game. It is about the fact that several African nations have openly criticised the fact that Wales, Scotland, N Ireland and England have their own National teams, whereas other equally proud and more independent “stateless nations” do not and that the UK have 4 FIFA votes not one. The implications are that due to all the selfish Union Jackery and little Englander scolonial steamroller antics, we could end up losing our status as a Welsh national team (as well as England, Scotland and N Ireland’s too), if FIFA cave in to worldwide demands, which will state “well they came together as a UK team for the Olympics in England, why can they not do it permanently?)
One… no need to be rude – only people with vocabularies as small as their genitals need resort to that… and Two, the commonwealth games still have English, Welsh, Scottish etc. teams – not team GB… that is JUST THE OLYMPICS. If you’re worried that FIFA would try to cut us down to just one team, I think thats misguided… the fact is that none of our FAs would go for it, and even if they did, FIFA would lose out on shedloads of revenue from it, and it would make no sense to anyone to do it on a permanent basis… and realistically if you put the shoe on the other foot and just imagine (try very hard – this is purely theoretical) that all the gb nations actually put forward the idea to FIFA that we should roll the teams into one… they’d most likely deny us the chance as it would be an unfair advantage – as in the best of the best – kind of an all-star team if you will… that wouldn’t be fair to the rest of the world!
Iy is not up to UEFA or FIFA it is up to the members, i.e. the nations. Just a 2/3 majority needed and Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland are gone forever, it won’t matter one jot what we think about it! A large amount of FIFA members already oppose our ‘special staus’ (according to the rules only independent nations should have international teams) and this will just strengthen their argument. Shame on any Welshman who supports Team GB that will ultimately lead to the demise of our international team.
I basically think you’re right about this – Bale and Ramsay have got it wrong.
I should that I am strongly opposed to the Olympics altogether – a complete waste of money that would be better spent supporting UK’s voluntary organisations. And having football as an Olympic sport is just ridiculous – I’m with Arsène Wenger on this one who said “Olympics is basically track and field”. He’s right – just keep it to that every four years, and keep it in Greece (after all they are broke already).
So given that , it is ridiculous to jeopardise Wales’ (and Scotland’s) status for such a pointless competition.
However – the one thing I do find amusing is how much the shirt looks like the French national team’s! Allez les bleues!!
Allez les bleues!!?? You forgetting those buggers took us out of the Rugby World Cup are you??
Morten – so an u23 olympic football competition & David media whore beckam now classes as a major football tournament does it??? Without resorting to google, can you tell me who won the last 2 gold medals?
That’s just a ‘supporter’s shirt’ which is available to buy now, ahead of the Olympics. This pic first appeared inside the case for FM 2012 I believe. We should be absolutely clear about this – the IOC and Adidas see the GB football shirt as a cash cow. The Olympics are about as far away from their published amateur ideals that can be imagined.
Morten,
Bringing other sports into the argument is meaningless as each sport’s governing body will have a different view of its member associations.
However, seeing as you have mentioned Colin Jackson I feel it’s pertinent to point out that Jackson could only ever represent Wales once every four years – at the Commonwealth Games – as the IAAF does not recognise Wales.
Our genuine fears are that Fifa will see the Olympic team as a precedent and force us to compete as one association, thereby denying us our own football team bar for the odd Christmas friendly against Euskadi or Catalonia … we wouldn’t even have a Commonwealth tournament to look forward to every four years seeing as footbal isn’t part of the Commonwealth Games.
You also have a very high opinion of what a GB side might achieve too – the “best of the best” ..? “All Star” ..??
Finally – the Olympics next year are the LONDON Olympics not the British ones – I don’t recall anyone calling the BEIJING games of 2008 the Chinese Olympics …
Blogdroed, a few things I think have been misread or misinterpreted- the best of the best statement only refers to the best of british – as it is of course in theory a british team, and you won’t be filling it with anything but the best players on offer – to do otherwise would be missing the point… i didn’t mean all-star as in world 11 because quite frankly that had naff all to do with what i was saying… and yes they were called the beijing olympics, not the chinese olympics – and yes it is “london 2012″ olympics, but you dont divide the chinese competitors down to peking and beijing etc because they are indeed all chinese, and compete as the peoples republic of china(i think)… but we are in a unique situation of being team GB… so theres no England competitors just British competitors… the fact that its held in London is irrelevant…
As for the colin jackson reference to him only being able to rep for wales once every 4 years… the same goes for the scots and the english… i don’t see the problem, it’s no different for any of the uk sides.
With regards to your fears of us being snuffed out and pushed into a friendlies only side, I’ll admit I haven’t heard anything about that and I’ll take you at your word… if true, then yeah – **** the olympics, and I take it all back!!! But realistically, I just dont see it happening – just my point of view.
It really could, and I’m honestly surprised that you weren’t aware of the issue because it’s absolutely central to our objection. It is a genuine threat to the existence of the Welsh national football team. As I said earlier, it really isn’t petty paranoia. It sets a dangerous precedent and undermines us.
Fair enough, maybe we are minnows on the world stage… and theoretically they might be able to get away with duffing us off as a national side… but would they get away with doing that to the english? surely that too would be an essential part of this puzzle? That more than anything makes me more dubious of this becoming a reality… england are (or were recently) in the top 5 teams in the FIFA ranking weren’t they? Theres so many variables in this equation… I just don’t know anymore!!
You may not have noticed but the English FA got ‘a bit of kicking’ from the Fifa family over their resolution to postpone the Fifa Presidential election. The SFA must wonder why on earth they gave support to Perfidious Albion.
Les Bleus, that’s where the Bretons are confined, playing for that f*** groggy sh*t team. Would you all like to see Wales and Scotland end up like that?
Not groggy, froggy ;-D
It’s wrong to criticise the players for something they are entitled to do. Don’t expect a faux-moral judgement from them. Bale and Ramsay are two proud Welshman, so don’t try and suggest otherwise. The moral quarm about the validity of team GB is completely different (which you address elsewhere For the large part I agree with).
Ramsay is still our king…
I don’t get why you Welshies are all so upset about? This isnt an English team, it’s a British one!
Wales are as much a part of Great Brotain as England are!
And what football fan wouldn’t want to see the two best players in Britain (Rooney and Bale) play alongside each other?
Anyone who actually believes that the home nations will suddenly be forced to relinquish their national teams in favour of a British one on the strength of this is a dick. The Welsh are just getting worked up because they love the fact they have a player who would walk into England’s first team and for some reason associate Britain with being England. Just get your heads round the idea that you are British too, and he is still representing you. Does nobody consider that poor Gareth might see this as the only chance he’ll ever have to play in an international tournament of any kind? Some of you have the balls to call him selfish when you’d deny him that just out of petty nationalism.
Largely agree, but a bit patronising at para 5 where the writer clearly feels superior in knowledge.
I’m often patronising, but I’m pretty confident in this instance that most people in Wales are unaware of the history of the International Board, and our privileged place at the table.
A dangerous route to follow,and yes it would not be long before the voices demanding an end to the four fa’s,and their influence in FIFA.
Engerlund would not be affected as much,being the big fish,they would be more than happy to have some outstanding talent available to them,but does it say more about certain players ‘conciousness’ than we like to admit?
It would certainly look like the thin end of the wedge,whether that is driven home or not is probably down to commercial considerations,but in six months time there might be some other factors bothering people more!!!
Does this mean then that any other Welsh athelete taking part in the Olympic games under the GB banner should not be allowed? The FAW themselves have said that though they may not want Bale/Ramsey to take part, they can’t stop them. And, as your 2 best players, you’re hardly likely to ban them are you. At the end of the day, Wales does not have the greatest history in reaching the finals of a major competition so if given the offer to play in a global competion, these players have every right to play. And let’s make it clear to those that are saying Bale and Ransey are selfish. How? They’ve not turned down Wales to play for GB. If Wales were allowed a team then they’d be playing in it. However, I do agree that the PR team have ‘played a blinder’ by getting Bale to model the shirt.
All the anti-Bale/Ramsey comments here are made on the basis that playing as a UK team threatens the future existence of the Welsh team, right? Well, as has been pointed out earlier in this string, that would have to apply to Northern Ireland, Scotland and England as well, wouldn’t it?
Simple question here (rhetorical):
Can you possibly, possibly see UEFA/FIFA or anyone else telling England that they can no longer play as an independent nation? Thought not!
Ffwtbol – excellent blog, as usual.
However, you refer to the ‘British Lions’. Did you mean the British & Irish Lions?
Perhaps unwittingly, or perhaps deliberately – I don’t know, you make the brilliant point that Britain (or rather, England) will always dominate and eventually wipe out recognition for the Celtic nations in the field of sport (see:- cricket).
Your error here, if it is an error, is comparable to Gullit’s – but the bigger picture, rather than a criticism of you, is that the british/olympic soccer squad is cultural imperialism at it’s worst.
Good article. The way I see it there are 2 basic objections here. The first and most practical is that Ramsay and Bale with their idiocy are threatening the existence of the FAW as an independent body and ultimately the right of Wales to play international football as a nation state. As you point out it is a quirk of history that we have a national side yet other stateless nations with significantly more political autonomy are not allowed national teams.
The second more general point is that this propaganda stunt will have massive political ramifications. At a time when we in Wales must be trying to build a counter-hegemonic Welsh popular culture which is opposed to the dominant ‘Britishness’ which permeates all walks of life in Wales through the media, education system etc, this seemingly trivial act- Welsh players proudly representing ‘Team GB’- could realistically set back the cause of Welsh nationalism by about 20 years. After all that has been achieved, this basically negates the creation of the Assembly, the strides made with the language, the resurgence of Welsh pup culture etc etc. In short this may have massive ramifications since sport is an arena in which many people create and solidify their national identity.
For those myopic idiots who think this is ‘good for Wales’, or who say that ‘we support the Lions, why not Team GB’. For a start, many of us (ok….just me and my republican friends) do not support the Lions and see it as the uncle Tom political movement that it is. The confusion of those who rail against the English visitors to CCstadium one day then turn into jingoistic Brits the next day is a case study in false consciousness and the power of the media.
I also like the ‘we’ve all got British passports’ argument: what the hell does that mean? You’re basing your British nationalism on what, exactly? Travel documents? So because something is in place, like a British passport system, then one isn’t allowed to adopt an alternative identity? I mean it’s analagous to Irish Republicans saying to each other ‘lads….Northern Ireland is actually techincally part of the UK in the eyes of British law….so let’s just leave it be shall we?’ Legal and political structures do not make something moral or normal you clowns. In the same vein, ‘we represent GB in track and field, so why not the football?’. Again, just because something has happened in the past and occurs regularly, it doesn’t mean it is right or ever has been.
I also advocate banning both of them for a number of years. I’d rather play and lose with our heads held high having demonstrated our independence rather than buckle and let the traitors back in. We lose with them in the team anyway.
Yes, it’s sad and disappointing to see Ramsey behaving in this way.
Should the FAW just sit tight? After all, Wenger may yet thwart Ramsey’s ambitions and while Rednapp says he’s happy for Bale to play he doesn’t wield the cheque book (or pay the players’ insurance) at White Hart Lane. What about Brian Flynn? Could he be persuaded to intervene?
Sadly it all comes down to money
That’s why the IOC wants Football in the Olympics
Look at what’s happening in 2016 in Rio – Golf will be an Olympic Sport, why is that, MONEY, the IOC want to sell the TV rights on the back of Tiger Woods playing in the Olympics.
The TV companies are rubbing their hands together thinking about all the lovely advertising space they can sell as people tune in to see Tiger play (not the moody one, who turns up at the Ryder Cup, when he has to play in a team & speak to people & be nice), but the solo artist, focused on winning that gold, USA USA USA
That’s why Tennis was introduced and why the rules were changed to allow all the NBA stars to play in the basketball events.
The Celtic FAs are caught in the middle & what happens then, you are squezeed.
They should take great care & get written assurances from FIFA, otherwise, we could find ourselves supporting a GB team at the Euros & World Cup, obviously the result would still be the same, abject failure to live up to potential, but we wouldn’t be able to quietly laugh behind our hands at the “English Golden Generation”
The BBC campaign for Team Beckham (like ‘Britain’ another fading brand) is relentless. Bellamy is today’s soundbite response to their stock loaded question.
The BBC is quite simply a state propaganda outlet. It was founded as such, in response to the 1926 General Strike. They realised that beating the fuck of the working class wasn’t enough any more. They recruited John Reith who’d been producing anti-trade union propaganda films to head the organisation. Not long after a Welsh outpost was created, to implant Britisism into the ears of Welsh radio listeners.
Fast forward 85 years and the only place you will consistently hear the word British used is on the BBC, whilst ‘Welsh’ tv and radio in the English language is ceaseless stream of homilies to Welsh military conscription fodder for colonial wars, Dr Who and the Anglo-Norman planter aristocracy.
Britisism only really culturally developed around the time of the Boer war, as mass education and a mass media developed. Prior to that they couldn’t give a fuck what we spoke or thought, so long as we could be used as slave labout in the rapidly growing resource extraction (which is why Wales has an transport infastructure similar to African or South American countries) or recruited to supresss other more colonies – much of the ethnic cleansing that took place in late 18thC Ireland was done by Welsh cavalry regiments for example.
No-on in England gives a fuck about the Olympics, even in the media, which sporting wise is a Premier League monoculture. The glaring exception is the BBC.
To try and rationalise all of this without recognising the insiduous role of the BBC is to deny that we are up against the biggest state propaganda media outlet in the world. Our Welsh football team may be trivial compared to the vast social cleansing and state subsidised property development going on in East London, but of course it means an awful lot to us.
Eevrything about the Olympics is repulsive. Founded by eugenics supporting members of the French elite, it’s always been allied with fascism. From 1936, to that US federation head who tried to destroy the lives of Smith and Carlos to Tlateloco to right armed saluting Franquista Juan Samaranch. Indeed whilst events at the Berlin games are infamous, little is known how the first great Peruvian side to emerge in the 1936 tournament, emulating Uruguay in using black players, swept all before them before being kicked out in the semi finals by the organisers, as beating the Aryans of the Austrian wunderteam and Germany to the gold medal was prohibited. FIFA was formed as the football usurped the other shite in the 20s, the legendary Uruguay wins in 24 and 28 made them ‘world champions’, and they proudly wear four starts on their shirts to this day. Subsequently, the football was emasulated, but kept in as a contributor above noted, as a cash cow. The stadiums were full in China in 2006, the tournament went to big regional cities. such interest didn’t extend to the BBC, as showing Messi and Ronaldinho was dangerous competition to people shooting guns and bit’s of cardboard and that strange walking thing.
We are pissing in the wind against such an onslaught, but the one thing they can’t steal is our dignity. We must show zero tolerance.
It should also be noted that both Bale and Ramsey are sponsored by Adidas, who are doubtless benefiting massively from this publicity.
As I’ve commented elsewhere, we live in the age of the military-industrial complex now welcome to the era of the sporting-corporate complex!
Good post.
It should also be noted that the English FA have the least to lose should FIFA strip the four home associations of their historic rights to field international teams.
The English FA would use its financial and footballing muscle to seize control of the (new) British Association, probably known as the FA.
Neither would England disappear from the international scene in the same way as Wales, Scotland and NIreland as while the FIFA/UEFA fixtures would officially refer to the World Cup Group G qualifier France V Great Britain at Stade de France what do you think school kids in Paris or workers on the Citroen production line, will be asking each other in the days before kick off? ‘Are you watching the game against Angleterre?’
Good article. I agree with your points on the general conduct of the BOA, FA, Adidas etc., however, I disagree with the fundamental point. I am not, candidly, opposed to Team GB.
You are correct in poiting out the provocative nature of the BOA on this issue. Indeed, if the BOA want to genuinely get the Welsh, Scottish and the N.Irish on board then the process requires far more inclusiveness. For example, an invitation to the media of the Celtic nations would certainly have been a nice gesture. Furthermore, could they not have chosen a manager who is directly involved in the English set-up? This only adds to the perception that Team GB is England, plus some other good players England wish they had.
On the fundamental, main question. I would firstly urge any Welsh protesters not to alienate the Welsh ‘stars’ who want to play for Team GB. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for them to play in what could be a top-class team. Furthermore, it is a ‘one-off’ event for these players.
I disagree with your point that “Most people in Wales are unaware of the awkward and potentially threatening political structure of international football”. We are aware, we (or at least I) don’t believe that the potentially threatening situation will come to frution. Yes, I know FIFA members are envious of the ‘UK block’ having four votes, as they are with CONCACAF members. However, I genuinely believe that FIFA aren’t that stupid to pursue with a merger of the UK national football teams.
Firstly, imagine the governmental political pressure from the UK if such a move were proposed. FIFA has enough problems, do they really want the sort of protests and media coverage which would come with a move to merge the UK nations? No, they don’t.
Yes, Blatter and certain members of FIFA can be c*****, but they are not stupid enough to merge the UK national teams into one. Can you imagine the outrage of strippring the oldest national team (Scotland, I believe?) in the World of its independence? Yes, as can FIFA, and for that matter I do not believe that Team GB will eventually pose a risk to the independence of the FAW.
In all the discussions over the rights and wrongs of a British football team in the Olympics, I’ve yet to see anything to explain how this would increase the likelihood of Wales ceasing to have its own national football team in FIFA competitions.
The arguments all go along the lines of “everyone else hates us” or, slightly more eloquently, “everyone else hates the fact that England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own teams”. There’s no explanation of how FIFA’s rules could be used to change the status quo, nor, crucially, of how what happens in the Olympics could give other FIFA nations the ability to prevent a separate Wales team from playing in FIFA competitions. Fair enough, Jonno says that FIFA need a two thirds majority to change things, but why would what happens in the Olympics make any country change its view on this issue? I just don’t see it.
I can understand why the FAW and SFA (the national football association, not the musical genii responsible for “Rings Around the World”) have adopted the official position of not backing Team GB and, on balance, I think it’s right that they should err on the side of caution. However, the calls for Ramsey and Bale to be banned, or stripped of the captaincy, are simply excessive. The pair consider that it would be an honour to be asked to represent Great Britain in the tournament, which is their prerogative, particularly as their national association has been pretty clear that they are free to do so. To condemn the players for that, in the absence of any meaningful evidence that for them to do so harms the FAW’s independence, is nothing more than mean-spirited, the rantings of whatever is the Welsh equivalent of “Little Englanders”.
I’m open to being persuaded otherwise by hard facts, but as I see it, if the rest of FIFA wanted the Welsh team to cease to exist, and the rules allowed them to make that happen, then it would happen, irrespective of what does or doesn’t happen at next year’s Olympics. It’s going to take more than supposition and conjecture to convince me that the reality is otherwise.
You’ve heard of the IFAB? And the fact that the British Associations have a permanent Vice-presidency on the Fifa Executive Committee?
It’s true that a resolution could be put before the Congress at any time regardless of what happens in the Olympics but why give a hostage to fortune? If we value our separate teams then the best demonstration of that is not to play a combined team under any circumstances. The late David Wills (who held the Vice-presidency) and Craig Brown were/are convinced that a joint team will be used against us.
And if you’re going to say, well, the English don’t seem that bothered… there is firm evidence to suggest that the FA knows sweet FA about the workings of Fifa politics!
Sorry, I still don’t get it. However much we value our separate teams, and however strongly we demonstrate that, I just don’t see how that will make a difference to any FIFA member’s perspective on this issue. You’re asking me to believe that not just one, but several, national FAs are going to say “well, I was going to vote for the 4 UK nations being forced to play as a Great Britain side in FIFA competitions, but now I’ve seen how much they care about being separate, I’ve changed my mind”. That just isn’t going to happen – they will all vote according to their own self-interest, and whether or not Bale and Ramsey play in the Olympics won’t have any impact whatsoever on the future of the Welsh football team. No-one has produced an even vaguely credible argument to the contrary.
I appreciate I’m very much in a minority in this thread, but the point of view underlying Phil’s original article and most of the responses to it, is entirely an emotional one. I’m just trying to bring a little bit of rationality to the discussion.
Or how about this?
“well, I was going to vote for the 4 UK nations to remain as separate associations in FIFA competitions, but now I’ve seen how much they care about playing as a Great Britain side, I’ve changed my mind”.
Hendre, do you honestly believe that is realistic? As far as I can see, that (like the example I gave) is an illustration of how absurd it is to suggest that what happens in the Olympics will influence anyone’s decision. As I said, the whole issue is about the self-interest of individual national FAs and I think it’s incredibly naive to believe that any of them care a jot about how strongly or otherwise the UK FAs want to retain their individual teams, or would change their stance on this issue because of it.
I find many of the responses in this thread far more depressing than anything Bale and Ramsey have done. For the first time in nearly a decade, we have a Welsh international football team playing with pride, passion and skill and yet there are people falling over themselves to call for a reversal of that revival by banning the two players who have been most crucial to it, just because they’re prepared to make themselves available for Olympic selection. If this did genuinely pose a threat to the separate existence of the Welsh football team, then I’d concede they had a point, but the reality is that no-one has produced a remotely credible reason why this should be the case.
any player that goes against the FAW should be banned from playing for Wales, i dont care how good they are. the FAW are standing up for our country, bale and ramsey are, as every other modern footballer, just standing up for their egos. i know its lame, but has anyone started a facebook page about it yet?
In reply to BillDodginIII…
Non-participation in the Olympics provides no guarantee of independence but at least it gives the appearance of consistency! We’re telling the rest of the footballing world that we’re not trying to have our cake and eat it.
As regards Bale, Ramsey and bans, I put the blame entirely on the FA for creating this ‘tug of love’ situation. If it hadn’t reneged on the Triesman agreement not to select non-English players and had held the line against the BOA, Bale and Ramsey wouldn’t have a choice in the matter. The FA has shown a shameful lack of solidarity with its fellow British associations.
surely if all the home nations were abolished to pave way for a permanent GB team an effect would be had on all of the leagues that exist within the 4 nations leading to a major revamp of all tiers that would have to include team from all 4 nations?
That way, both sides of Glasgow would achieve their dream.